Fahrenheit 9/11

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nfg05
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Post by nfg05 » 28 Jun 2004 04:10

I would say that it is not OUR responsibility as the U.S. to force Sadaam out of power. We aren't the world's police force and we can't come to the rescue every time there's a problem for the world.

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Justin
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Post by Justin » 28 Jun 2004 04:40

i wonder how many people commenting here have actually seen the movie

Nuzman
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Post by Nuzman » 28 Jun 2004 04:58

nfg05 wrote: I would say that it is not OUR responsibility as the U.S. to force Sadaam out of power.  We aren't the world's police force and we can't come to the rescue every time there's a problem for the world.
No, we're not the world's police force. We're not sending troops to Nigeria where muslims have slaughtered whites and Christians. We're not lifting a finger to end slavery in Sudan. We've done nothing to defend the villages in Indonisia which have been wiped out in an ongoing religious war.

But our President and our military are responsible to defend you against enemies who have sworn to kill you. Saddam waged war against his neighbors and held U.S. citizens hostage. He regularly attacked U.S. troops and resolved to build weapons to kill on a mass scale. There are even published news reports that he planned to wage war on American soil.

Neville Chamberlain once appeased a power-hungry dictator. Because of that we sent 16 MILLION to war, lost nearly 300,000 and had over 670,000 injured. Ok, even if Europe had been able to contain Hitler alone, we still probably would have been attacked by the Japanese, but the price would have been less.

Educate yourself before you make such broad justifications for your passivism.

JustSumDude
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Post by JustSumDude » 28 Jun 2004 04:58

<span style='font-family:Tahoma'><span style='color:green'>I'm really looking forward to seeing this movie. I'll probably check it out either tomorrow or Tuesday.</span></span>

Nuzman
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Post by Nuzman » 28 Jun 2004 05:05

Justin wrote: i wonder how many people commenting here have actually seen the movie
Justin, I haven't criticized the content of the movie because I haven't seen it. I leave that to those who have. I don't have to see this movie to know it's full of inaccuracies and misrepresentations. That's his style.

What I have done is try to encourage those who blindly accept what Moore presents as fact to question those facts. Take a few moments and search news archives and you'll be able to discredit him all by yourself.

What I find amazing is the effort you'll put forth to discredit fake nudes of your favorite wet dream, yet put forth zero effort to confirm Moore's drivel. God, I hope you're not a journalism major. If so, I left TV news because of people like you.
Last edited by Nuzman on 28 Jun 2004 05:10, edited 1 time in total.

UncleMao
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Post by UncleMao » 28 Jun 2004 05:11

nfg05 wrote: I would say that it is not OUR responsibility as the U.S. to force Sadaam out of power.&nbsp; We aren't the world's police force and we can't come to the rescue every time there's a problem for the world.
I call bullshit on this one. That is exactly what the US has done on so many occasions and conveniently enough when they had something to profit for doing so. Now Im not fingering all Americans here. But let's face it, under the guise of global justice and freedom and all the democratic schtick, a lot of money has travelled under the table, into the pockets and coffers of the American government and its economy.

I mean if you wanna play Apu & the Quik E Mart and sell a shiv to Sideshow Bob, and then even teach him how to use it, don't blame Sideshow the next time he comes in and takes your nuts with the very shiv that you put into his hand. You cry bloody murder then but its a risk you undertook when you started selling shivs in the first place.

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Justin
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Post by Justin » 28 Jun 2004 05:12

<a href='http://www.electablog.com/2004/06/why-i ... moore.html' target='_blank'>http://www.electablog.com/2004/06/why-i ... re.html</a>
Why I Love Michael Moore

A few days ago, I wrote a post explaining why I hate Michael Moore. In it, I mostly focused on the fact that I sometimes think his backing of cause can do more harm than good.

Today, I'd like to try to answer a slightly different question:

Why do I love Michael Moore?

Because we live in the age of silence. We actually hear supposedly reputable people talking on major networks who say that Michael Moore's film should not be shown or that he shouldn't be allowed to advertise it because such marketing efforts would interfere with campaign finance laws. Before this movie even came out, you had people complaining about what folks in the Middle East would think of it (the common theme that disagreement with policies equals unpatriotism and aiding the enemy is never far from these debates).

Let them think what they should think. That we are nation where a person can make a movie that criticizes the president and his policies. Aren't these the freedoms we're looking to spread?

Why do I love Michael Moore?

Because we live in an age when the folks at Fox News (of all places) spend much of their broadcast time complaining about media bias. Because even people who believe in Moore's general cause have been brainwashed into believing that the release of ideas or points of contention could somehow be bad for America. We are afraid of debate. We are afraid of dissent. We are afraid of seeing a breast at halftime.

Here's a bulletin. The press cannot be too hard on an administration that leads us to a war. That's their job in our society.

Because, as Bruce Springsteen wrote in his epic song Jungleland, "The poets down here don't write nothing at all, they just stand back and let it all be." Any war should be accompanied by busloads of dissent and cynicism. That doesn't soil the troops, it is vital to respecting them. There are two key ways to support the troops that have been ignored in this age of tough talk. First, they should only be sent somewhere when it is absolutely necessary. And second, every effort should be made to give them the full support of troops provided by our allies. Believe me, more people watching your back and a return home a few months earlier is a lot more supportive to troops than any cowboy rhetoric.

So where are all the poets?

And it's not just the war. We have seen a ridiculous Congressional focus on raising indecency fines and we've seen Howard Stern come dangerously close to being silenced for saying the exact same things he's been saying for more than a decade (except the part about being anti-Bush). I wonder if it's a coincidence that he is now off the air in several swing states? You may hate Howard Stern. Congressional leaders may see Howard as the wrong person for whom to make a stand. But where the hell is rock and roll? Where are the young people marching in the street with placards and bullhorns? Maybe it's because it would be almost impossible for a musician to take a stand against Clear Channel and still have a career. OK, so where is the outrage about media ownership laws?

Is the debate over the digestion of carbphydrates the only thing that can get a rise out of people these days?

Because without Michael Moore, we may not be focusing on some of the issues he raises in his film. How scary is that? A little dissent and a political perspective can make one an international superstar. That's how rare criticism has become. Because the media has largely been horrible on the Iraq question. Because we're seeing some of the footage in Moore's film for the first time. Because we see fifty hours a week on Laci Peterson and about two minutes on the Saudi relationship with the U.S.

Because Michael Moore is, in general, on my side in the upcoming election, yet sometimes he really pisses me off. That is rare indeed in an era where we're usually only allowed to be pissed off at people on the other side of the aisle. In a time when absolutely everyone is positive of the righteousness of their views on absolutely everything, this guy even has me disagreeing with myself.
Last edited by Justin on 28 Jun 2004 05:17, edited 1 time in total.

Seriously
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Post by Seriously » 28 Jun 2004 05:13

Justin wrote: i wonder how many people commenting here have actually seen the movie
<span style='color:maroon'>I just went to see it and...




...it's not playing in Athens. Atlanta is probably the only city in the state showing it.

I'm not that worried though, because I go to a pretty liberal school, it'll play on campus.

Until then though, I don't want to be seeing any goddamn spoilers around here.

Edit for MAROON"D</span>
Last edited by Seriously on 28 Jun 2004 05:13, edited 1 time in total.

ivaj
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Post by ivaj » 28 Jun 2004 06:41

Nuzman, watch the movie.
Wakeup call time. You can't support the troops without supporting what they do.
uh you can! Bush had no right to go in Iraq! He said that WMD where there, but they weren't. He said Saddam may obtain/has obatined Nuclear/Biological weapons. Yet they have yet to find it! And Bush said at a time that he wanted to talk to Iraq, thats bull! S. Korea which is a threat to the USA, which has WMD, has been in talks with the USA for a while now. They want to go into war with the US. Iraq did nothing, it was just a big cloud of smoke.

Watch the movie then come back here and try to stand up for Bush!

EDIT:
To quote Plato - "Only the dead see the end of war."
Last edited by ivaj on 28 Jun 2004 06:42, edited 1 time in total.

TheOtherAmy
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Post by TheOtherAmy » 28 Jun 2004 06:50

So basically, watching Fahrenheit 9/11 was pretty much like playing catch up with everyone else who's already 'in the know'.

I wouldnt depend on michael moore for much factual content, he is biased as hell and edits most everything out of context. Plus I hate that fucking hat he wears in all his interviews. UGLY HAT.

nfg05
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Post by nfg05 » 28 Jun 2004 07:05

UncleMao wrote:
nfg05 wrote: I would say that it is not OUR responsibility as the U.S. to force Sadaam out of power.&nbsp; We aren't the world's police force and we can't come to the rescue every time there's a problem for the world.
I call bullshit on this one. That is exactly what the US has done on so many occasions and conveniently enough when they had something to profit for doing so. Now Im not fingering all Americans here. But let's face it, under the guise of global justice and freedom and all the democratic schtick, a lot of money has travelled under the table, into the pockets and coffers of the American government and its economy.

I mean if you wanna play Apu & the Quik E Mart and sell a shiv to Sideshow Bob, and then even teach him how to use it, don't blame Sideshow the next time he comes in and takes your nuts with the very shiv that you put into his hand. You cry bloody murder then but its a risk you undertook when you started selling shivs in the first place.
UncleMao, that's the point I'm making. We've acted like the world's police force in the past, and we're doing it again now. I don't agree with what's going on, and of course there were monetary implications driving the U.S. decision to go to war. However, I think that most of the people in the White House believe that what they are doing is "right" and they are "helping out the people of Iraq". Regardless of whether or not this is true, I don't think it's our responsibility in the first place to be rescuing people from other nations when we have plenty of domestic problems right here in this country that need to be solved.

Seriously
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Post by Seriously » 28 Jun 2004 07:13

TheOtherAmy wrote: I wouldnt depend on michael moore for much factual content, he is biased as hell and edits most everything out of context. Plus I hate that fucking hat he wears in all his interviews. UGLY HAT.
<span style='color:maroon'>That slovenly look is beyond calculated.

And of course Mr. Moore isn't portraying the whole truth, but neither is the Bush administration. Both sides lie, and we're left to piece together the truth on our own.

Which is one reason I want to see this.

The other:

Liar or no, Micheal Moore can tell a compelling story.</span>

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Justin
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Post by Justin » 28 Jun 2004 07:41

michael moore for president! hyuk!

no really, you should watch the movie before saying anything else.

Seriously
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Post by Seriously » 28 Jun 2004 07:57

Justin wrote: no really, you should watch the movie before saying anything else.
<span style='color:maroon'>I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. The theaters around here "can't get a copy".

Oh wait, you just want me to shut up.

I fail. :weep: </span>
Last edited by Seriously on 28 Jun 2004 07:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Justin
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Post by Justin » 28 Jun 2004 08:02

not you dummy. the people that haven't seen the movie yet.

that way they can at least have an idea of what they're criticizing.

as al k holik kept saying:

<a href='http:///board/index.php?showtopic=417&view=findpost&p=8628' target='_blank'>"watch the film!"</a>
Last edited by Justin on 28 Jun 2004 08:09, edited 1 time in total.

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