Cheap Gas

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BlackMage
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Post by BlackMage » 25 Sep 2005 06:04

I was reading Newsweek, an article about how we have become spoiled and dependent on cheap gasoline. In response to the first oil crisis back in 1973, Congress created a Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) and mandated fuel-economy standards. From 1970-1990, average fuel economy for cars rose from 13.5 MPG to 20 MPG. For light trucks, Minivans, and SUV's, the gains were from 10 MPG to 16 MPG. But in the 1990's, there was massive backsliding. Fuel economy stagnated as SUV's and pickups became more popular. In 1992, the SPR had 83 days of imports. In 2000, it only had 52.

Now, people claim that cheap gas is a right, and blame OPEC, Greedy corporations, the government, etc... as to why it is rising in price. So what do we do? Do we push for more fuel efficient cars in order to compensate for the rising price of gas? Do we push for new fuel sources? Or do we sit and watch as our country becomes more and more dependent on gas?

The Colonel
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Post by The Colonel » 25 Sep 2005 06:28

It's a right to drive whatever the fuck you want...

If an entity is inflating prices to make more money it is wrong...

Is that what you wanted to hear you bleeding heart whining tree hugging hippie?

BlackMage
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Post by BlackMage » 25 Sep 2005 06:32

If that is your opinion.

TheGoodReverend
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Post by TheGoodReverend » 10 Oct 2005 23:23

The Colonel wrote:It's a right to drive whatever the fuck you want...
Original text of Amendment VII:

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law, and also you have the right to drive whatever the fuck you want.

Jacked
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Post by Jacked » 11 Oct 2005 14:03

Cheap gas is a right? Where? Not in this reality. Go back and take Econ 101. Price is regulated by the market. You know, supply and demand.

Many of you don't know that America does not have a serious shortage of crude oil(stuff that comes out of the ground). The problem lies in refining it(into gas you put into your car). If the Atlantic ocean suddenly turned into crude oil, prices would still be high; we need new refineries.

Because of recent hurricanes, more refineries have had to shut down, lowering supply, while demand has remained steady. Thus the price rises. The only way for gas prices to drop would be for more refineries to be built, and for people to use less gas.

Now, I hate government regulation in almost all forms, but someone really need to set higher standards for gasoline consumption in new cars. Americans are too stupid to stop buying SUVs, or to ride their bike or walk.

My solution:
1. Start drilling for oil in ANWR. Not to lower prices, but to cut off our dependance on foreign sources.
2. Build more refineries. There hasn't been a new oil refinery built in America for almost 30 years.
3. Set higher consumption standards for all new cars, and promote gasoline/electric hybrids.
4. Fund more research in discovering/developing alternative fuel sources.

Eventually oil prices will go down.

BlackMage
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Post by BlackMage » 12 Oct 2005 07:18

Holy shit, someone actually got the jist of this thread. Wow, its un-fucking-believeable. For once a point got across...however, if you had read it fully, I neither say its a right or that its not. That was the question laid on the table for the rest of the forum to answer to.

Smash
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Post by Smash » 12 Oct 2005 18:42

BlackMage wrote:Holy shit, someone actually got the jist of this thread. Wow, its un-fucking-believeable. For once a point got across...however, if you had read it fully, I neither say its a right or that its not. That was the question laid on the table for the rest of the forum to answer to.

No, we got the gist of it, Grand Douche. Between this thread and your 'cost of a gallon of...' thread we got the gist.

You are a douchebag that likes to type stupid new topics up. Oh, and you appear to be misinformed about the costs of gas.

Did I miss something?

BlackMage
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Post by BlackMage » 12 Oct 2005 19:20

Yup. You missed a lot. Try again.

Jacked
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Post by Jacked » 13 Oct 2005 10:29

BlackMage wrote:Holy shit, someone actually got the jist of this thread. Wow, its un-fucking-believeable. For once a point got across...however, if you had read it fully, I neither say its a right or that its not. That was the question laid on the table for the rest of the forum to answer to.
I did read it fully, and now that i reread mine, it does sound like I'm talking to you, but actually I'm talking to people in general.

JustSumDude
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Post by JustSumDude » 13 Oct 2005 13:30

<span style='font-family:tahoma'><span style='color:green'>This thread is not very good.

Mad DIS!</span></span>

TheGoodReverend
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Post by TheGoodReverend » 13 Oct 2005 21:50

I like some of Jacked's ideas, but there are some complications:

It looks like drilling in ANWR really will have profound negative effects on wildlife. That may not be an absolute bar to drilling there, but it certainly means alternatives are deserving of consideration. How about increasing fuel imports from Mexico and Venezuela rather than the Middle East? Or would we just be trading one unstable region for another?

I'm all for fuel consumption standards, but the problem is that American car manufacturers have already lost a lot of ground to foreign companies, and, since the production of trucks and SUVs is their last stronghold, higher standards would hurt them disproportionately.

I'm also all for alternative energy sources, but it seems like a lot of projects, such as the exploration of ethanol, are influenced more by special interest money than by economic and scientific reality.

Jacked
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Post by Jacked » 15 Oct 2005 03:36

I never said any of these ideas are easily obtainable, or even currently possible.
It looks like drilling in ANWR really will have profound negative effects on wildlife. That may not be an absolute bar to drilling there, but it certainly means alternatives are deserving of consideration. How about increasing fuel imports from Mexico and Venezuela rather than the Middle East? Or would we just be trading one unstable region for another?
It doesn't matter where your oil comes from, but foreign dependance is foreign dependance. Either way, there wont be drilling in ANWR anyway, at least not for many years. That debates been settled already, but my opinion is just that, my opinion.
I'm all for fuel consumption standards, but the problem is that American car manufacturers have already lost a lot of ground to foreign companies, and, since the production of trucks and SUVs is their last stronghold, higher standards would hurt them disproportionately.
Actually both <a href='http://www.hybridcars.com/silverado-sierra.html' target='_blank'>GM</a> and <a href='http://www.fordvehicles.com/escapehybrid/home/' target='_blank'>Ford</a> are specifically looking to create hybrid trucks and SUVs in order to sustain sales, while staying <a href='http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/06/pf/auto ... m_hybrids/' target='_blank'>cost effective.</a>
I'm also all for alternative energy sources, but it seems like a lot of projects, such as the exploration of ethanol, are influenced more by special interest money than by economic and scientific reality.
I agree about special interest groups, but that doesn't mean that all research should be considered biased and without merit. Especially as oil gets more and more scarce, the market will force a viable solution to emerge, if the auto industry plans to continue to be around for more than 20-30 years.

rick
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Post by rick » 15 Oct 2005 05:17

If you can't afford the amount of gas you are used to consuming, consume less. Or pilfer from some other luxury. Most folks complaining 'bout gas can easily adjust regardless the cost. The really down and out members of society were not using a whole hell of a lot of gas to begin with...

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