Should Tuong die??

UncleMao
Posts: 401
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 12:30
Location: The Heart of the Proletariat

Post by UncleMao » 28 Oct 2005 19:13

Just to set the stage. I have actually met the older brother of the twins...

from <a href='http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/co ... 01,00.html' target='_blank'>The Tuong article</a>

Van 'the baby' of death row

Michael McKenna, Singapore October 28, 2005

To fellow inmates awaiting execution in Singapore's Changi prison, condemned Australian drug-trafficker Nguyen Tuong Van is a "baby among hardened criminals".

The mother of a Singaporean held in a neighbouring cell before his execution earlier this year said her son often spoke about the 25-year-old Melbourne man, expected to be hanged within the next six weeks.

"He was always talking about the 'small boy', how soft and gentle he was, how different he was from the others," Letchumi Murugesu told The Australian. Shanmugan Murugesu, described by his lawyer as a "death row confidant" of Van, was convicted of smuggling marijuana into Singapore and hanged in May.Mrs Murugesu, whose son was a former army sergeant and champion jet-skier, said she ached for Van's mother, Kim, as hopes the Australian will be spared dimmed with each day.

She predicted strict jail protocols, such as no physical contact, would be enforced until Van was killed.

"I begged to hug and kiss my boy one last time," Mrs Murugesu said. "They said yes and then, at 5pm the day before he died, they told me to leave."

And in a macabre "service" offered to Mrs Murugesu, prison authorities asked her to bring her son's favourite clothes so that he could be photographed for the family two days before he went to the gallows. The pictures, according to his sister Makeswari, were given to them the day before he died.

"They won't let you touch him until they give you his body, but they got him to pose for these pictures," Makeswari said. "They said 'this is what we can do for you'. It is like torture."

Australia's politicians, lawyers, religious leaders and human rights organisations have stepped up calls in recent days to spare Van from the gallows. But the Singaporean Government said yesterday it could not make an exception after rejecting Van's appeal for clemency last Friday.

Van was caught with 396g of heroin strapped to his body and in his hand luggage at Singapore's Changi airport in 2002. Singapore high commissioner Joseph Koh, in the first official statement since Van's plea for clemency was rejected, said yesterday the Australian had been dealt with fairly.

Van, who had no previous criminal record, told Singapore's High Court he was lured by a Sydney-based drug syndicate to act as a drug mule to repay &#036;25,000 in debts owed by his twin brother, Khoa.

Van's lawyer, Julian McMahon, said he did not think Mr Koh's statement showed the case was closed. "The reason we've always had hope for Van and still do is he fits in that slim margin of cases where there's room for flexibility," Mr McMahon told the ABC.

AngelBaby
Posts: 556
Joined: 29 Sep 2004 11:36
Location: Cloud 9
Contact:

Post by AngelBaby » 28 Oct 2005 22:15

UncleMao wrote:Van's lawyer, Julian McMahon, said he did not think Mr Koh's statement showed the case was closed. "The reason we've always had hope for Van and still do is he fits in that slim margin of cases where there's room for flexibility," Mr McMahon told the ABC.
<span style='color:blue'>No wonder he lost the case...he hired Dr. Christian Troy as his defense attorney.

Maybe he can get his appearance altered to avoid the gallows.</span>

UncleMao
Posts: 401
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 12:30
Location: The Heart of the Proletariat

Post by UncleMao » 29 Oct 2005 06:49

God. A man's gonna die and you make a nip/tuck joke.

Only one thing I can say about that.

Genious!









...Send me naked pics from the 10th circle of Hell, m'kay?

Smash
Posts: 547
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 15:07
Location: Warren, MI

Post by Smash » 29 Oct 2005 07:56

UncleMao wrote:God. A man's gonna die and you make a nip/tuck joke.

Only one thing I can say about that.

Genious!









...Send me naked pics from the 10th circle of Hell, m'kay?

Angel was on fire today with zingers. Read some of the FPP comments. :D

Nevar
Posts: 7
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 12:06

Post by Nevar » 02 Nov 2005 12:32

I say free him......drugs are a personal choice....I still have yet to understand the whole death penalty thing anyways....As I don't know all of the Singapore laws, the U.S. allow themselves to pull the switch on you........but don't you dare pull it on yourself.......ahhhh, so much goodness in the world....Throw every temptation out there! Allow our DNA to mutate alittle........make it interesting!.......anyone else notice how weak our immune systems have gotten with the "advances" in medicine?....basic biology 101.......eh, off topic again....apologies!

UncleMao
Posts: 401
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 12:30
Location: The Heart of the Proletariat

Post by UncleMao » 02 Nov 2005 22:38

I'm sorry. My decoder ring ain't working

keykenny
Posts: 19
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 12:36

Post by keykenny » 03 Nov 2005 05:53

Nevar wrote:I say free him......drugs are a personal choice....I still have yet to understand the whole death penalty thing anyways....As I don't know all of the Singapore laws, the U.S. allow themselves to pull the switch on you........but don't you dare pull it on yourself.......ahhhh, so much goodness in the world....Throw every temptation out there! Allow our DNA to mutate alittle........make it interesting!.......anyone else notice how weak our immune systems have gotten with the "advances" in medicine?....basic biology 101.......eh, off topic again....apologies!
Ummm... wow. I saw the word DNA so I am guessing your post made no sense to anyone else.

But to be on topic, I say let the man die. Who cares what he is like, he knew the laws, and knew what the consequences could be for the actions he has done. He gambled and lost. The law is the law and should not be changed because a bleeding heart is given for somebody.

EDIT: And if he didn't know the laws of the country, but went in with heroin strapped all over, well then let evolution take its course.
Last edited by keykenny on 03 Nov 2005 06:03, edited 1 time in total.

TheGoodReverend
Posts: 85
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 23:19
Location: West Philly
Contact:

Post by TheGoodReverend » 03 Nov 2005 17:41

keykenny wrote:But to be on topic, I say let the man die.&nbsp; Who cares what he is like, he knew the laws, and knew what the consequences could be for the actions he has done.&nbsp; He gambled and lost.&nbsp; The law is the law and should not be changed because a bleeding heart is given for somebody.

EDIT:&nbsp; And if he didn't know the laws of the country, but went in with heroin strapped all over, well then let evolution take its course.
I dunno man, this law might just be wrong. The death penalty is the ultimate punishment that can be dealt out for a crime. The worse we penalize somebody for something they did, the worse, we are saying, is the crime they commited. Do we really want to say that what this guy did is so bad that it is a tie for first place on the list of all-time worst things you can possibly do?

Put another way, if I'm in possession of a pound of heroin, I don't care whether I kill someone or commit treason or anything else horrible on top of that, because I know that if I get caught I'm going to be hanged anyway.

keykenny
Posts: 19
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 12:36

Post by keykenny » 03 Nov 2005 20:40

TheGoodReverend wrote:I dunno man, this law might just be wrong.  The death penalty is the ultimate punishment that can be dealt out for a crime.  The worse we penalize somebody for something they did, the worse, we are saying, is the crime they commited.  Do we really want to say that what this guy did is so bad that it is a tie for first place on the list of all-time worst things you can possibly do?

Put another way, if I'm in possession of a pound of heroin, I don't care whether I kill someone or commit treason or anything else horrible on top of that, because I know that if I get caught I'm going to be hanged anyway.
To be honest I do not not ANYTHING about Singapore, so what I am about to say will most likely be very ignorant, so bare with me.

Seeing as it is a different country, they most likely have different values than you and I. Maybe to them, carrying pound of heroin is as offensive as murder. I don't know that and I am sure I sound like an American jackass trying to sound intellectual. But if hanging peope who commit similar crimes is common, then this man should have known that before going in. I am sure he did know, but took the chance to pay off his debt. It's a sad story, but if thousands of other people died for drug related crimes, sorry to say, but so should he. It sounds heartless, but I believe if someone is in direct violation of a law then they should be punished accordingly, regardless of the circumstances.
Last edited by keykenny on 03 Nov 2005 20:41, edited 1 time in total.

UncleMao
Posts: 401
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 12:30
Location: The Heart of the Proletariat

Post by UncleMao » 04 Nov 2005 02:05

I am Singaporean. Most SE Asian countries bear a strict zero tolerance policy because they do not wish to be a distributing channel for drugs from the production hotzones of Northern Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia.

It must be understood that on one hand they are only catching a fraction of those shipments that get through and as such have to be harsh on those caught trafficking to send the right message to the drug producing elements and organsations.

That being said, I am not without sympathy for Tuong because this guy is actually a straight A student who tried to bail his junkie fuck of a brother out of trouble by doing this one thing for the bad guys. His brothers debt had already incurred a death mandate from the syndicate and all Tuong was doing was trying to keep his worthless brother alive.

Should he die for this? That's the sad thing.

It's been about 3 official appeals sent to the Singaporean Government and so far its not been good. He is in the twilight moments of his life now. Nothing short of a miracle is going to save this guy because I know. Singapore is not compassionate on such grounds.

keykenny
Posts: 19
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 12:36

Post by keykenny » 04 Nov 2005 04:09

UncleMao wrote:I am Singaporean. Most SE Asian countries bear a strict zero tolerance policy because they do not wish to be a distributing channel for drugs from the production hotzones of Northern Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia.

It must be understood that on one hand they are only catching a fraction of those shipments that get through and as such have to be harsh on those caught trafficking to send the right message to the drug producing elements and organsations.

That being said, I am not without sympathy for Tuong because this guy is actually a straight A student who tried to bail his junkie fuck of a brother out of trouble by doing this one thing for the bad guys. His brothers debt had already incurred a death mandate from the syndicate and all Tuong was doing was trying to keep his worthless brother alive.

Should he die for this? That's the sad thing.

It's been about 3 official appeals sent to the Singaporean Government and so far its not been good. He is in the twilight moments of his life now. Nothing short of a miracle is going to save this guy because I know. Singapore is not compassionate on such grounds.
It's sad to say, but it's good to hear that they are sticking to their guns. I am sure the word is getting out to all the drug traffickers. They will all begin to wear diapers incase they are caught.
It's sad to hear this story, but I am sure if we heard everyone's life story who commited a crime, we would also want him spared.

TheGoodReverend
Posts: 85
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 23:19
Location: West Philly
Contact:

Post by TheGoodReverend » 04 Nov 2005 10:05

keykenny wrote:It's sad to say, but it's good to hear that they are sticking to their guns.&nbsp; I am sure the word is getting out to all the drug traffickers.&nbsp; They will all begin to wear diapers incase they are caught.
It's sad to hear this story, but I am sure if we heard everyone's life story who commited a crime, we would also want him spared.
I think those instincts are exactly why this is a bad law. If it's something we can picture ourselves doing under the same circumstances, how can we say it's not only illegal, but the most heinous of all crimes? Clearly he should be punished, but this much? I think Singapore has for years been a prime example of an overzealous draconian legal system that defies common sense in the name of keeping the trains running on time.

P.S. I should say, I hope you don't take this personally, Mao or any other Singaporeans. When I think of the handful of Singaporeans I've met in my life, I think of an entire handful of wonderful people. That said, I think the state's legal system sucks.
Last edited by TheGoodReverend on 04 Nov 2005 10:08, edited 1 time in total.

keykenny
Posts: 19
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 12:36

Post by keykenny » 04 Nov 2005 10:52

I am curious to know how is the crime in Singapore, I believe their legal system is a prime example for all nations to follow, and would like to know how well it works when used in reality.

TheGoodReverend
Posts: 85
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 23:19
Location: West Philly
Contact:

Post by TheGoodReverend » 04 Nov 2005 11:10

keykenny wrote:I am curious to know how is the crime in Singapore, I believe their legal system is a prime example for all nations to follow, and would like to know how well it works when used in reality.
You know what political system had pretty low crime? National Socialist Germany.

Not saying that Singapore is like the Nazis. Just saying there are measures of how well a government serves its people beyond the crime rate.

But if you're concerned about crime rates, you might be interested to know that, I believe, Singapore has a higher rate of executions per capita than Texas. And technically speaking, the death penalty is a form of homicide. So look out.

Nevar
Posts: 7
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 12:06

Post by Nevar » 04 Nov 2005 12:19

:: Opinions tend to be just that....opinions ::

Whatever happened to alittle decent anarchy?....
Now, in my opinion.......yes, the dreaded opinion! I am not anywhere near familiar with Singapore's form of governement....but, I would think that if a good number of people felt a law was wrong, they would change it.....if they believed in it strongly....they would die/kill for it...

On the idea of tolerating peoples' differing values/customs, how would one explain that in about 10 years as countries tend to change about every decade or so....remember that in the Meji era Japan, gays were highly tolerated if not promoted among men of high society and now the official view (or loudest from the Japanese-Right) from Japan is anti-homosexual. Now thats more than a decade, but just gives a perspective on a topic that has gotten much PR in the past.....



Rev is right. People have just become accustomed to revenge killing as a form of tax and emotional relief. Sure, you might hear a serial killer has had the switch pulled on them, but I'd gurantee that you probably forget that feeling in about 6 hours or less. 6 hours for those who got really emotional. I admit, I'd be more than pissed if someone killed a family member, but that would be MURDER.....selling/transporting drugs is not murder......the buyer is no longer 'innocent'...they have made a choice...yes, consequences are always bound.
Last edited by Nevar on 04 Nov 2005 12:32, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest