PWNING

[Justin]

ah but i'm not a film student. but i do know a little about what works on screen so again, like i said, it not great great, but definitely better than anything the others have come up with. and trust me, what they have really isn't as great.

also, all those cuts were purposeful cuts too. not just cuts for the sake of having lots of cuts. they were there to build tension.

lemme type out the comments the other people in class made about the commercial (we all had to fill out a feedback form which was given back to us):

"great match editing. good camera movement. good editing. lighting could have been better. an overall good commercial"

"wow! fantastic. great pace/great concept/edting!!! needs a little more lighting on tim"

"clock added suspense. that was so cool! really creative idea. CU's of tim at the computer - could add creative lighting techniques with the computer screen"

"excellent idea! nice shots! nice text! great commercial!! - a tad dark at times"

"awesome! so many shots! that was hilarious! music was awesome. good use of class members. that was like an actual commercial."

"nice shots. great idea on making the cuts faster. makes the viewers get excited. good acting. needs more lighting on the face. very well done!"

"very clean, quick shots. very impressive. i thought your sound effects were very appropriate. cool camera shake with the alarm clock."

"very good shot selection. i think it was a perfect commercial. very nice takes and a great job at editing. this was my vote for best."

'low shot of typing on computer was good + cuts back to the timer were done really good. work on lighting"

"very funny! good camera shots. good use of stuff at the end, great audio. good job!"

"impressive number of shots. very nice close ups and composition. on some shots, it was hard to see tim's face."

"good shots and cuts. audio looked out of sync at one point"

"clever! i really liked your shots."

"the camera work + composition of the shots was excellent. very funny choice for a commercial. the editing was proficient, great build up and way to get emotion out of the audience with suspense"

and this was what the instructor said:

"wow!!! what can i say? awesome shot choices. great job building up a sequence while shooting. nice shot composition. excellent use of close ups! i love the shots of the hands and looking over the back of the computer to see tim's eyes. nice camera moves and trucking shots. your shots are very creative. great idea to have the camera shake during the clock ringing as well. loved your use of the clock ticking sound effects and the swish sounds that you had within your production. i was VERY impressed with the transition to the clock at the beginning. going from inside of the clock to the outside was ingenious. what great planning and match editing. your sequence when editing was excellent. your level of difficulty definitely came during the editing. i also like that you kept the natural sound of the typing on the keypad. your pacing was great, building the tension. this combined with the sound effects really worked in this spot. nice full screens at the end of the apple think different.

there were lighting challenges as you mentioned in your self evaluation. though i actually liked the orange hue that appeared in the commercial, the graininess was apparent due to the low lighting. unfortunately, these cameras dont work well in low light."

i'm still not gonna post it though! primarily because i'm in it. i will post the short movie though. if possible. we'll see.

[Tankz]

Dude, I went to film school, and I never heard anyone brag about how good their own shit was as much as you just did.  Seriously, unless you post the clip and prove me wrong, I'm going to assume that the commercial is the same totally amateur crap that everyone makes and the 60 cuts in 60 seconds is just plain annoying.  You know, the best editing Oscar doesn't go to the film with the most cuts.

What film school did you go to?

[joemaxwell]

I went to Southern Illinois University.

Posting the positive comments from your class is the exact kind of thing I was talking about. It's your site, so by all means promote your own work, but I was just saying your rant about how you didn't get the best scores, even though your film had more edits than the other, didn't make sense to me. If the goal was to make a commercial that would be on television, I doubt one with the obvious lighting problems that yours had (judging from the comments, which by the way, having been through film school and had to fill out comments on other people's work, I always look for good things to say. People know you are going to read their comments, and they don't want to you slam them, so they don't slam you. That's how it usually works) would find its way onto the air. You mentioned that the other commercial looked really pretty, which is probably why it won.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. I have been visiting this site for a long time, and I generally agree with you on a lot of stuff and I like your sense of humor. I just hate to see people bitch about how great their own stuff is and how it's bullshit that other people didn't like it the best. Your commercial obviously had lighting issues that people couldn't get over. That's not bullshit. That's honest criticism.

And for the record, i don't care if you post the commercial. I'll watch it if you do, but I think it's funny to brag about how good it is and then refuse to post it.

[Justin]

actually i posted them all in their entirety. that's all the good and the bad. and we were encouraged to list good AND bad stuff.



and the commercial is good. i'm just not posting it because i'm in it. if i weren't it would have been up ages ago

^_^

and trust me, that other commercial, while pretty looking was completely BORING. no sound FX, no fancy camera moves, no laughs, no fancy editing. just nice pretty shots strung together. BORING.

[Justin]

<a href='http://homepages.wmich.edu/~devans/COM% ... rcial.html' target='_blank'>http://homepages.wmich.edu/~devans/COM% ... al.html</a>

omg double post

[joemaxwell]

and trust me, that other commercial, while pretty looking was completely BORING. no sound FX, no fancy camera moves, no laughs, no fancy editing. just nice pretty shots strung together.

Anyway, this quote makes it obvious that we are arguing separate things here. I was under the impression that what made a commercial effective was its ability to advertise the product at hand. But now I see that commercials are only effective when they have a bunch of annoying tricks that people use to cover up a lack of substance, like sound FX for no reason, rediculous camera moves, comedy, and "fancy" editing. Gotcha.

Well, looks like I will have to tell most successful advertising agencies to close shop, because their commercials are really boring.

You are going to be very successful in TV. I'm not lying about this. You have exactly the same mentality toward your work that makes FOX the biggest and baddest around...more, more, more, regarless of substance. Bells and whistles are the only things that matter, right?

Do you also think books are boring? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm really wondering. I'm only a few years older than you, and I'm not laying some trip on you about how TV has rotted the younger generation's brain, because I bet I watched just as much as you growing up. But seriously, do you read, or do you only watch TV and big budget (and/or) action movies?

[Justin]

i actually dont read books. only magazines really. the last two books i've read was mick foleys autobiography (2000) and bruce campbells autobiography (2002). i prefer watching tv and movies.

<a href='http:///dvd.html' target='_blank'>/dvd.html</a>

actually i'd love to work at fox ^_^

all i ever watch is fox and nbc. in fact, i'm watching fox right now!

[joemaxwell]

I wasn't kidding when I said you will be very successful in TV. Your attitude is right on target for what they are looking for.

I disagree with you on what makes a commercial (or any motion picture, really) good, but that's a matter of taste, so there's no point arguing that.

Good luck during the rest of your class, and if you ever want a list of "boring" movies that I think are really amazing, let me know, because I have a feeling most of my favorite films are very different than yours.

[Eamon Angelface]

Don't take film classes to work in film. Take TV classes to work in TV. That's what I learned. I guess it depends in what capacity you really want to work but at least pick one and put all your effort into it. Be an editor. Be a writer. Don't try and be both. And much as you'll hate to hear this you're not anywhere near a big enough asshole to be a director.

And your 60 cuts in 60 seconds is too much of a device. A good idea doesn't need to be treated with that kind of post prod attention. I won every award my school ever offered by just making sure I started with my best ideas.

Lastly, you'll be poor for the first few years after you finish school but if you can tough it out it will be well worth it. That's assuming your parents won't carry you through it. If they will then you're all set.

All just my opinion.

[Justin]

like before sunrise? spartacus? magnolia? amadeus? dances with wolves? in the mood for love? i own those. slow 'boring' 'nothing fancy' movies to most, but i like them. i watch pretty much anything really. from michael bay crap to james toback extremely long takes no fancy editing no fancy shots stuff (like two girls and a guy).

i'm just using interesting visuals and cuts and edits to mask the low production value and bad writing right now in my productions (ala sam raimi during the evil dead - army of darkness/the quick and the dead era). maybe someday i'll slow down and be more like sam raimi from the a simple plan - the gift era. when story starts to take precedence over shots.

[joemaxwell]

But why criticize someone who is already slowing down? Do you really think a commercial for body products should be full of jump cuts and sound effects?

And keep in mind, Sam Raimi was inventing a style, and you are copying a style. He was making a film in a whole new way, and you are making a commercial in a very tired way. I don't think the comparison works. He had plenty of money on Quick and The Dead. He wasn't masking anything.

Once again, I'm not arguing your taste, because there's really no purpose to that. The films you listed are films that I like too, but they don't mean anything. If you really want to be like Sam Raimi, you have to invent a new style, not copy Sam Raimi's. Good commercials don't need big budgets, just good ideas. That's been proven time and time again.

[Justin]

yep. he had more money for quick and the dead but i thought i'd just lump it in there because that still had all the fancy shots and stuff. that was really his transition movie from low budget schlock to high budget 'oscar worthy' films (with less to zero 'fancy shots'. i think a simple plan got an oscar nod for something). the quick and the dead is somewhere in between.

the commercial actually is pretty clever but it probably won't seem that way if anybody else watches it because my intended target audience were my classmates. and i set up that 'twist ending/punchline' as an ironic in joke that only people in the class would appreciate.

it was an apple commercial btw. for final cut pro HD. (we were allowed to use real products) i'd put in under suspense/comedy. it kinda starts off slow, then the cuts come faster as tension starts to build, adding to the suspense, and then ultimately slowing down again at the end as the 'twist ending/punchline' in delivered. of course describing it doesnt really help much so disregard this entire paragraph.

oh and i guess i should mention that that other commercial; it was done by a chick who had no prior experience with FCP. which is not saying much since i have as much experience with FCP as she does (i only started using it when i joined this class. even though i've had the program on my mac for about 2 years now. just never bothered to use it). so in essense, she isn't 'already slowing down'. she's barely even picked up any speed! i call fluke!!

[reservrdg8]

I have faith in my FUBAR owner. You will win. If not, give me a call. I'll have some "trustworthy" people "alter" the results and opinions.

Heh Heh Heh.

[bligityblah]

I don't find it hard to believe that someone who has ran a wildly successful site for several years could put together a funny 60 second commercial. Of course we all know that the regulars have a great deal to do with the success, or something.


Yeah, so what, wanna fight about it?

[jdaw2552]

Justin, what kind editing program did you use. cause im an amateur film guy and i use pinnacle pro. but i've used Imovie too.