Interesting news item

Shoot the shit.
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Seriously
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Post by Seriously » 25 Oct 2006 22:04

eamon angelface wrote:Sweet merciful crap.

I always think about how those troops get slowly radiated the whole time they're there.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Mar04/Nichols0327.htm

That's just beyond nuts though. The seasoning is the topper. What a lunatic.
I...


did not know that we used uranium so extensively.


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Post by AngelBaby » 25 Oct 2006 22:35

eamon angelface wrote:Sweet merciful crap.

I always think about how those troops get slowly radiated the whole time they're there.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Mar04/Nichols0327.htm
Ahem...
Bob Nichols writes in Oklahoma City and is the Editorial writer for DemoOkie.com. Bob Nichols is a contributing writer for LiberalSlant, Democratic Underground, OnlineJournal, AmericaHeldHostage, and other online dot com publications.
I think that just about says it all.

The jury is still out on exactly how hazardous DU is to humans. This argument is roughly equivalent to the debate on global warming, you'll find all the evidence you like to support your personal point of view.

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Post by eamon angelface » 25 Oct 2006 23:33

I'm not even a US citizen so political allegiance is moot. Mine or the authors. I know it means a lot to people in the states and I still find that amazing. You guys judge more by voting stance than anything else. It's like a blanket judgment unit.

Depleted Uranium is proven to be hazardous. The only grey area is whether or not it's the absolute direct cause of Gulf War Syndrome.

I wouldn't compare global warming (which is about as factually based as psychology and relies almost entirely on correlative coefficient to provide it's "proof") with DU; Uranium dust can't be good for you in small or in this case extremely large doses.

I always found it weird that Canadians are so proud of not going to war in Iraq and Americans are mad about Canada not participating directly when Canada supplies most of the DU used in American shells.
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Post by AngelBaby » 26 Oct 2006 02:19

eamon angelface wrote:Depleted Uranium is proven to be hazardous. The only grey area is whether or not it's the absolute direct cause of Gulf War Syndrome.

I always found it weird that Canadians are so proud of not going to war in Iraq and Americans are mad about Canada not participating directly when Canada supplies most of the DU used in American shells.
Yes, that's what I'm getting at. GWS is more likely caused by the inhalation of all that smoke from the thousands of burning oil wells during the first Gulf War. Also, the US military does not use DU in nearly the number of applications this person essentially pulls out of his ass in this heavily slanted opinion piece. He even goes so far as to state "all American bullets" contain "lots of Uranium"...what a joke, his credibility with me ended right there.

Oh, and we thank Canada for whatever DU they might supply us with...it helps us blow up tanks real good. But to say y'all provide "most" of our DU would be a pretty big stretch. As you can see here, we've got plenty (Canada doesn't even make the list). ^_^

I can dissect the rest of this pitiful article, but I think you get the point. It's basically self-serving crap.

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Post by Bligityblah » 26 Oct 2006 02:58

HAHAHAHAHAHA, that article is cute. I just love political smear articles that have no scientific basis. Wanna know where he lost me? Right here:
Radiation in Iraq Equals 250,000 Nagasaki Bombs
Depleted Uranium is tremendously more inert than natural uranium, which isn't itself that potent until it is refined, certainly nothing to be overly concerned about. A radiation hazard? No, those claims are actually pretty laughable if people would just take the time to do the research. The "amount of radiation" released by DU in this article is a skewed statistic, the alpha and beta particles given off are no factor what so ever. Alphas are blocked by our own skin and betas are blocked by something as sophisticated as a thick piece of paper. DU also emits Gamma rays but much less than you'd get working in a doctors office for 20 years. The amount of gamma given off isn't even enough to be distinguishable from normal background radiations given off by such nasty things as cars, streets, and table salt. DU really only poses a threat as a chemical hazard, not a radiological one.

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Post by AngelBaby » 26 Oct 2006 03:34

Bligs is absolutely correct. The heavy-metal toxicity of DU is far more worrisome than its relatively low-level radioactivity. However, that's not to say you can ignore its primarily alpha particle emission. While true that alphas cannot even penetrate the dead layer of epithelial cells that make up our skin, if inhaled or ingested, those DU particles can bombard tissue in their localized area with alphas. However, even this is not a huge issue, as studies demonstrate that 90% of inhaled/ingested DU is eliminated by the body in the urine in about 3 days, following solubilization in the bloodstream.

Also ignored by this "author" in his hatchet-job, it is untrue that "most" of a DU round that strikes a target "turns instantly into very, very small dust particles". Once again, studies have demonstrated that typically between 10-35% of the round will be aerosolized on impact, and this is dependant on a wide number of factors.

Like I said earlier, further dissection is possible, but I hope it's been demonstrated to be unnecessary...

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Post by eamon angelface » 26 Oct 2006 05:40

The article was just an example. I could care less about it or the author.

Per the affects of DU:
By Dr. Albrecht Schott Director of the World Depleted Uranium Center, Germany; Damacio A. Lopez, Director, International Depleted Uranium Study Team (IDUST), United States; and John M. LaForge, Editor, Nukewatch Pathfinder, United States. wrote:Depleted Uranium particles can be inhaled easily in smoke resulting from the impact of armor-piercing projectiles on hard targets and the aerosolization of uranium into small particles. If even one small particle (< 5 microns in diameter 5-millionths of a meter the size of cigarette ash) is trapped in the lungs, surrounding tissues can be exposed up to 272 times the maximum permitted dose for workers in the radiation industry.

Ionization and other radiation-induced effects, such as excitation and free radical formation, cause chemical changes in components of the living cell, including chemicals, such as deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA), the genetic material that is located in the chromosomes within the cell nucleus. Alpha radiation colliding with atoms gives up its energy in a very short distance, such as the thinness of a piece of paper, less than the thickness of the skin, or a few centimeters of air. Consequently, alpha particles emitted by radioactive materials are not likely to be harmful when striking the outside of the human body that is protected by clothing and the outermost dead layer of skin. However, when the same alpha-emitting radionuclides are taken into the body their emission can directly irradiate nearby cells of tissue in which they are deposited and may cause cellular changes. Such changes may result in adverse health effects in the short and long term, depending on the nature of the changes.

In comparison to alpha radiation, fast-moving electrons, which are known as beta particles, have much smaller mass and electric charge, are more deeply penetrating, and dissipate their energy over a larger volume of tissue. Even high-energy beta particles, however, will transfer most of their energy and come to a stop within about 1-centimeter of plastic, 1 to 2 centimeters of tissue, or 4 to 5 meters of air. Therefore, beta particles that strike the outside of the body will penetrate only a short distance, but they may travel far enough to damage the actively dividing cells of the skin. Beta-emitting radionuclides may be found in contamination consisting of fission products from a nuclear detonation or resulting from the dispersion of nuclear reactor waste or radiotherapy sources. Gamma rays and x-rays, which are emitted from radionuclides as well as produced by machines, are the most penetrating form of ionizing radiation and consist of electromagnetic energy. While randomly colliding with electrons in the body along a scattered path length, gamma rays may give up all or part of their energy in the tissue or, although it is unlikely, they may pass all the way through the body, without interacting. Therefore exposure to gamma rays are most commonly encountered in the use of radiation-producing equipment used in medical applications (including those in combat medical facilities).
Dr. Marvin Resnikoff, partical physicist wrote:Once inhaled, fine uranium particles can lodge in the lung alveoli and reside there for the remainder of one’s life. The dose due to uranium inhalation is cumulative. A percentage of inhaled particles may be coughed up, then swallowed and ingested. Smoking is an additional factor that needs to be taken into account. Since smoking destroys the cilia, particles caught in a smoker’s bronchial passage cannot be expelled. Gofman estimates that smoking increases the radiation risk by a factor of 10.

Uranium emits an alpha particle, similar to helium nucleus, with two electrons removed. Thus, alpha radiation is a heavy particle with a double positive charge. Though this type of radiation is not very penetrating, it causes tremendous tissue damage when internalized. When inhaled, uranium increases the probability of lung cancer. When ingested, uranium concentrates in the bones. Within the bone, it increases the probability of bone cancer, or, in the bone marrow, leukemia. Uranium also resides in the soft tissue, including the gonads, increasing the probability of genetic health effects, including birth defects and spontaneous abortions. The relationship between uranium inhaled or ingested and the resultant radiation doses to bone marrow and specific organs (dose conversion factors) are listed in numerous references.


So regardless of your political leaning or the author of that article's DU is far from harmless in any form. That's all I wanted to get at. I think it's in part what is driving these guys nuts. It's not from sitting beside the damn guns, it happens after the shells explode on impact anf then people go to those areas after and sit around breathing the DU in. If it's all over Iraq then they're all sitting there breathing it in and slowly poisoning themselves.

Over 150,000 government pay outs since 1991 to vets is a lot.

I can't find where I read about Canada selling the most DU globally but I'll look again.
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Post by Bligityblah » 27 Oct 2006 00:17

Invalid sources, those organizations have a vested interest in "proving" that DU is a vile substance which adorns the throne of Satan and will thus be the resultant factor in the end of the world. Those sources are no less radical and out of touch than PETA or Greenpeace.*


*Note: Not attacking the poster, just the material presented.

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Post by AngelBaby » 27 Oct 2006 03:08

eamon angelface wrote:DU is far from harmless in any form. That's all I wanted to get at.
And I don't think anyone has disagreed with that basic point. I know I certainly didn't. But to look at DU as some huge radiation hazard to our ground troops is disingenuous. Soldiers are hardly exposed to it these days, as the war isn't about tank battles anymore, and hasn't been since the first months. They should be more worried about lead poisoning, if you get my drift.

I also hear that camel spiders are quite horrifying.
:ph34r:

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Post by eamon angelface » 27 Oct 2006 04:47

Maybe GWS is from spider bites then?

I think it's radioactive dust from sploded shells.

Maybe the sources I cite are biased but maybe people develop a bias once they've become experts on the issue?

An agenda usually involves the eventual presentation of an alternative. I didn't read anything about proposing using something other than DU anywhere, just that it will kill you if you breathe in particles of it. And since that first strike those particles have been floating all over Iraq.

I mean to get back to the subject, that guy seasoned his girlfriend's extremities. He didn't try to cover it up, he prepared her like a Thanksgiving turkey. That takes a serious case of the crazies. Even Dahlmer didn't think about adding some BAM! to kick his cannibalism up a notch.



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Post by AngelBaby » 27 Oct 2006 05:24

eamon angelface wrote:I mean to get back to the subject, that guy seasoned his girlfriend's extremities. He didn't try to cover it up, he prepared her like a Thanksgiving turkey. That takes a serious case of the crazies. Even Dahlmer didn't think about adding some BAM! to kick his cannibalism up a notch.
According to medical examiner's reports, there were no human remains found in the guy's stomach.

So at least he's got that going for him when he gets through the line and steps up to St. Peter's Gate... "Yeah I killed her, chopped her up and cooked her...but at least I didn't EAT her."


:blink:

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Post by smash » 01 Nov 2006 21:39

MMMMmmmmMMMmmm?

Seriously, that's fucking disgusting. What the hell is wrong with people?

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Post by Seriously » 01 Nov 2006 22:08

Hey,


You know what tastes good?


Fat. Fried fat, dipped in chocalate, with sprinkles and M & Ms on top, covered in melted cheese.


Dericious.




EDIT:

Wait, doesn't KFC serve that?
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Post by exelis » 01 Nov 2006 23:40

You might be able to get it in the really deep south.

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Post by efilflah » 01 Nov 2006 23:48

smash wrote:MMMMmmmmMMMmmm?

Seriously, that's fucking disgusting. What the hell is wrong with people?
I think just the smell would make my teeth fall out.

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