Things to annoy Angelbaby!

Shoot the shit.
baedar
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Post by baedar » 15 May 2007 07:00

AngelBaby wrote:
smash wrote:The story about Al Gore's "Environmentally friendly" home [/sarcasm] already pissed Angelbabe off.

This should actually put a smile on her face.
http://www.snopes.com/politics//bush/house.asp
Yeah, I read about Bush's 'Western White House' a couple weeks ago.

Suck on that, Al.
Its hot when you tell Democrats/Liberals to 'Suck on that'. hahaha

Awesome

eamon angelface
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Post by eamon angelface » 15 May 2007 23:14

smash wrote:BULLSHIT!

Am I the only one really bothered by the college's actions on this? File this under none of their fucking business!
Her drinking and partying probably through off all the child molesters rhythm.

Teachers do fuck all. I have too many friends from university who couldn't figure their lives out so off to teachers college they went. Now they work 3 hours a fucking day and spend the rest of the time whining. Who wouldn't take up drinking with a lifestyle like that?

The whole education business model needs to be gutted and revisited. The internet makes a lot of what teachers do obsolete.
DLT Prom Queen 4 years running.

Phife
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Post by Phife » 17 May 2007 10:27

You must've had some bad teachers then if you honestly believe that "the internet" can replace them.
Nada.

eamon angelface
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Post by eamon angelface » 17 May 2007 12:02

The internet makes a lot of what teachers do obsolete.
Note the "a lot of what teachers do" not "makes them obsolete".

Try thinking about it.
DLT Prom Queen 4 years running.

Phife
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Post by Phife » 17 May 2007 13:15

Again, you must have had some bad teachers.

Even the worst of the ones I had offered better learning environments than something where I can see boobies, check out sports stats, or play games at the click of a mouse.

I think you are wrong. Simple as that.
Nada.

Umgawa
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Post by Umgawa » 17 May 2007 14:26

Phife's right, particularly in the sense of a vocational field: Try learning to run a printing press from the internet, or even a manual. Wood shop, building trades, metal shop, home economics... these are all notoriously difficult to learn from the internet, because the internet can't tell you when or where you've screwed up.

I'd quit my job and find a way to work out of my house if driver's education didn't have teachers. Goddamn fifteen year-old maniacs driving down the road with nobody to work the emergency brake pedal by the shotgun seat... great idea.

The internet does a lousy job of elaborating on points and answering questions, such as when a senior in high school says to a teacher, "Jimi Hendrix was black?" Unfortunately, the internet has no way of telling someone, "You're too stupid to live," whereas a teacher with tenure can get away with it once or twice a year. Don't get me wrong, tenure's a system that's not without its flaws, but job security is one of the only things that makes people want to be teachers, because the pay is lousy, the hours are considerably longer than you think, you have to wait for the department head to die or retire before you get to teach the smart kids who don't need things repeated three times...

Next, to do away with teachers and to replace them with the internet begs the question, who grades the papers? The internet won't do it, and if you don't make students write papers, how will you gauge comprehension, absent a multiple-choice test, which is the worst kind of test for gauging much of anything. For example, if you want to really test how smart someone is, do you throw them on Jeopardy! or do you throw them on Hollywood Squares? Multiple choice tests are just a method for allowing the intellectual bourgeoisie to get by and feel good about themselves.

You want to know the real problem with education? It's the fact that people pass classes and move forward in school despite not being good enough. You hear about this a lot in urban areas, and it's hard to get a lock on why exactly it happens, but a lot of teachers give the kids passing grades so they don't have to go about the effort of holding the kid back in the same grade and taking the chance of having to teach that kid the following year. If the teachers aren't doing a particularly good job at anything, it's that they're letting too many stupid people move to the next grade, and then they get to high school and they end up dropping out because that's when multiple-choice tests become the norm, and all of the failing grades are telling them that they're stupid, so they drop out of school and become a hindrance on society in general, or they graduate high school and they're totally unprepared to join society.

The internet is not a cure for teacher apathy. I've known a lot of teachers who look at some kids and basically declare them failures (not out loud, of course), and try to work on the other students and make intelligent people out of them, because spending more time trying to engage the class failures and make the failures commit more effort to learning only takes away from time that would be better spent on the lesson plan.

The internet is not a cure for student apathy, either. Kids, and even college students, look at education as something they have to do, as opposed to something they want to do. Given the choice, I'm sure most kids would rather stay at home and play videogames or go out to the park and play basketball than go to school. Summer vacation is coming up, and I doubt I'll hear any kids saying, "Fuck, man, I wish school was still in session. Videogames are boring. I want to learn more stuff." I don't know anyone other than myself who just flips through Wikipedia for two hours a day, just for the hell of it; just to learn about random topics.

The internet is not a cure for parental apathy. As I said, the teachers have a lesson plan in place and they can't spend that much extra time trying to get kids to expend effort that they don't want to, so the link between teachers and parents is the last line of defense in getting kids a proper education. However, if the parents aren't willing to expend the effort to get their kid to shape up, then nothing's going to work. Parents often get this odd notion that, for the seven hours a day that a kid is at school, that kid is not their responsibility anymore, and that's just not true, and a lot of parents can't be brought to accept that fact. They think their kids are fine and that it's something wrong with the teacher.

So, really, I'm not that clear on what part of the internet makes a lot of what teachers do obsolete. It's a relatively unclear statement that necessitates elaboration beyond, "Try thinking about it," and I think that either you, your parents, or your teachers, or some combination of the three (which is the most likely case) contributed to your lack of happy memories of your educational experience. Furthermore, if you felt that you were getting a substandard educational experience at the college level, you could have always packed your bags and gone somewhere else, as there are lots of universities willing to take your money.

But I don't buy the "teachers do fuck all," excuse; not for a minute, and I don't think that you'll take the kind of effort to defend your point as I've defended mine. Again, that comes down to a question of effort, which is sorely lacking in a lot of people, and it's a lack of effort that eats away at education; it's just a question of whose.

AngelBaby
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Post by AngelBaby » 17 May 2007 14:37

Just to attempt to clarify, I don't think Eamon meant the internet makes teachers themselves obsolete, merely some of their functions.

Does anyone here mean to tell me you never had a teacher who did nothing but "teach" straight from the text? Hell, I had college professors who did, and I demonstrated my disdain for this method by not attending their classes and reading the chapters of the book that I knew we would be tested on and acing their exams. Now replace book with internet and I think you'll see the point Eamon was trying to make.

Of course, I could be wrong. :unsure:


p.s. I get mired in Wiki all the time, it's like quicksand for me. I get started reading one thing and just keep clicking and clicking. It's almost an addiction. ^_^

The Deadly Superman
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Post by The Deadly Superman » 17 May 2007 15:46

Umgawa wrote:I don't know anyone other than myself who just flips through Wikipedia for two hours a day, just for the hell of it; just to learn about random topics.
And I thought I was the only one who did that.


AngelBaby wrote:p.s. I get mired in Wiki all the time, it's like quicksand for me. I get started reading one thing and just keep clicking and clicking. It's almost an addiction. ^_^
Yes, I do the exact same thing. I'll go on Wikipedia to read a topic, and midway through reading it, I'll see a Wiki-Link, and right-click it and "Open Link In A New Tab" and about 17 links and two hours later, I'm still reading Wikipedia, and have forgotten what I originally came on to read about.

I was on it a couple hours today reading about Harry Potter, the new book, the new movies, etc. I don't even think what I originally searched for had anything to do with Harry Potter.

"Hi my name is Joe, and I'm a Wiki-holic."

"Hi Joe!!"
Image

Phife
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Post by Phife » 17 May 2007 16:33

Wow. That was a lot of stuff Umgawa. Wow.

In all my years of schooling (I'm on my 21st year right now) I have only had two teachers/professors who "taught" the way your just described AB. So, for me (and I can assume my experience isn't too different since I didn't always go to "good" schools) teaching is much better than the internet, reading, self-teaching, or anything of the like.
Nada.

smash
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Post by smash » 17 May 2007 17:36

Actually I like to throw Angelbaby into the wiki trap as often as I can.

And then I laugh at her as she can't escape.

Phife
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Post by Phife » 17 May 2007 22:24

And the funny thing is that when she's stuck there she's learning things that may or may not be true!
Nada.

AngelBaby
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Post by AngelBaby » 18 May 2007 00:22

There is indeed quite a bit of truthiness on Wiki. ;)

smash
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Post by smash » 18 May 2007 01:00

AngelBaby wrote:There is indeed quite a bit of truthiness on Wiki. ;)
bonus points for using a Colbert term.

Phife
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Post by Phife » 18 May 2007 02:11

And being cute whilst doing it!
Nada.

eamon angelface
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Post by eamon angelface » 18 May 2007 22:54

Yeah that's two people who chose to read into my statement and address it in a totally misconstrued variation.

I also think you're basically addressing one possible student type: the retard. So teachers pander to retards...? wtf do I care? If you can't learn by example and have someone on stand by to ping with questions (said teachers only now there are 80% less of them necessary) then no amount of school is really going to help you. Apathetic or not.

I appreciate the effort, I'd rather have had something more thought out and concise.

Who grades the papers? The teachers.

How about reading what I said instead of glancing over it and going on and on about something else and pretending it's what I said?

btw: multiple choice works quite well for math. No grey area.

What you're really saying is you had some pretty good baby sitters.

Also, the hours are not considerably longer than I think or said. Not even a little bit longer. See, I have friends who ARE teachers. Right now...they are teaching. By teaching I mean they're on facebook looking up old friends getting ready for the next hour in their 3 hour day to start. It is a 3 hour day of teaching. 5 hours to mark papers? If you really think they work long hours I have an invisible car I'd like to unload on you.

You also assumed that by internet I'm meaning kids can go online and fuck around and they'll learn the same. Maybe you didn't assume? You hoped?

Wrong.

There are remote educational programs available THAT MAKE MUCH OF WHAT TEACHERS DO OBSOLETE.

Teachers do fuck all. Teachers aim for fuck all and if hey don't make it quite there...meh? Fuck fuck all, they're union.

The entire educational business model should be reevaluated. When you pander to the class moron and slow everything down you end up boring the reasonably intelligent kids to the point where they lose interest.

As per my teachers: they were better than yours. I'm comfortable with that because after busting my ass I was recruited into program at a very advanced school (Upper Canada College). Private school teachers tend to be a little progressive than public and I doubt you were dissecting cats when you were 12. Much of what they did could be replaced with certain computer programs and internet access though. Not the cats though I could have done without that anyway.

Keep in mind that I obviously went to school in Canada and our system has a degree of differences to yours. Or at least it used to.

So instead of just attacking without merit...read what I said and again "think about it". I didn't even have to elaborate here since you couldn't even be bothered to actually read what I wrote initially.
DLT Prom Queen 4 years running.

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