Insomnia

[smash]

Well, It's not secret to people around here that I have problems sleeping. Not as bad as some do (Bligs you instantly come to mind). My problem seems to be staying asleep. I'll nod off real easy, but routinely at 1 1/2 hours into sleep, I'm awake and usually up for hours trying to fall back asleep. Another habit I've had almost my entire teen-to-adult life is rarely remembering dreams ever.

Someone recently suggested melatonin supplements. Not only does this make me drowsy within 20 minutes of taking it, but I am routinely having dreams now. Several a night in fact. I still wake up within 2 hours of falling asleep, usually to go to the bathroom, but I fall right back asleep within minutes. Further more, I feel rested, but in the mornings it's HARD getting out of bed, my eyes are usually puffy and sensitive to light, which is not really something that's ever been a problem for me before. I'm not drowsy or groggy....just not wanting to wake up.


So my point in this post is a few fold:
Angelbaby - can you explain melatonin better to me? The part in particular I'm confused about is why its so easily affected by light, either in pill form or when processing in your body? Also, are there any overdose concerns to worry about?

All else - who else has sleeping problems. Any successful cures? Any of you try melatonin?

[exelis]

Melatonin is essentially a hormone, and a precursor to several neurally active molecules. It's produced by the body naturally, but a little extra seems to help many people with sleep.

I'd have to do some research about the light sensitivity. I have never experienced that, myself, and I do use melatonin occasionally.

I only take half of a standard pill, because my mind actually starts to race if I take too much (maybe this would help you, especially seeing you're having such active and memorable dreams). It still usually sends me to dreamland quickly at the reduced dosage.

Valerian is an herbal supplement which is very gentle and actually is believed to have several chemical components which work synergistically to induce relaxation. It isn't so much something that induces sleep, but it relieves stress and helps to quell extraneous or stressful thought processes that might prevent you from sleeping or wake you.

OTC sleep aids such as Unisom are useful for short periods of time, but actually stop working after a while. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is chemically similar to OTC sleep aids (which are usually dimenhydrinate, but some actually just use diphenhydramine), and is perfectly safe to use as a substitute for them. It is also a hella lot cheaper. Make sure you take these only before a night that you'll have a good 8-10 hours to sleep, else you'll likely wake up drowsy. Again, they aren't something you can take forever, but they can help reset your cycle.

Red lenses... Yup. Buy some specialty sunglasses that are red, since blue light signals your brain to stay active. These are especially useful at resetting your circadian rhythm. When you wake up in the middle of the night, try not to look at light sources that aren't red, or put on your red glasses. Many flashlights come with red filters or bulbs that are designed to preserve your night vision, but will also help you not to give your brain the wrong signals.

After working overnights for 4.5 years, but not adopting a vampire's schedule totally, my circadian rhythm was a train wreck. I've been only working 'til midnight, lately, and trying to get back on track. It's a slow process, but it's gradually getting better.

[AngelBaby]

I'm not totally clear on your question concerning melatonin and light. It's always been my understanding that endogenous melatonin (sleepy hormone) is released by the pineal gland during periods of darkness, and release is inhibited by exposure to light (even brushing your teeth, washing your face, etc. in a brightly lit bathroom can affect levels prior to hitting the sack). I have no info on the sensitivity of the compound itself to light.

As far as overdose, I think one would have to down a ton of the stuff to worry about such an occurrence (but it's also been noticed that more is not better when it comes to the sleep-inducing effect, so increasing dosage shouldn't even be pursued, especially since larger doses also seem to result in more side-effects). It should also be pointed out that long-term studies on the use of exogenous melatonin are few and far between, and most doctors seem to recommend using it for periods around 3 months. Also note that this compound is sold as a "dietary supplement" here in the US, and as such is not subject to FDA regulation in the manner of drugs, so the quality of what you buy may vary considerably.

Hopefully, I've managed to address at least some of your questions/concerns.


DISCLAIMER: AngelBaby is not a medical doctor, nor does she play one on TV.

[exelis]

Oh, and avoid taking more than the rda of vitamin B6 (pyridoxine)... It's been proven to make dreams more vivid, and if those are what are waking you up, you don't want that.

[smash]

All- the bottle has a big warning about keeping it out of light. I found that odd...and I was confused by the person who recommended melatonin to me...they rambled something about making sure to avoid light otherwise the product wouldn't work. Which made me curious and confused...it sounded like light prevents natural creation of melatonin what the hell difference would artificial ingestion make?

So all of what you are saying is that I shouldn't rely on this as a permanent solution? :S I'm really happy with it for the few days of using it so far.

For me the problem is that I think I have too active a mind (stress easily gets to me, mainly in the form of i just cant help over and over and over thinking stuff on my mind). It's real key that I wake up in pattern with circadian rythms- i.e. waking up within an hour and a half after first falling asleep.

[exelis]

All- the bottle has a big warning about keeping it out of light. I found that odd...and I was confused by the person who recommended melatonin to me...they rambled something about making sure to avoid light otherwise the product wouldn't work. Which made me curious and confused...it sounded like light prevents natural creation of melatonin what the hell difference would artificial ingestion make?

So all of what you are saying is that I shouldn't rely on this as a permanent solution? :S I'm really happy with it for the few days of using it so far.

For me the problem is that I think I have too active a mind (stress easily gets to me, mainly in the form of i just cant help over and over and over thinking stuff on my mind). It's real key that I wake up in pattern with circadian rythms- i.e. waking up within an hour and a half after first falling asleep.

Avoiding light will have 0 effect on the melatonin that you ingested. It will reduce your natural production. Of course, since the net effect has to do with both the consumed and the endogenously produced, it does have some significance.

If, as you say, your mind is too active, take valerian. It's the perfect answer, imnsho. My bottle (from Wally World... Nature's whatever gimicky name brand) suggests 3 capsules per dose. I take more like 5, but I'm a big guy. To be brutally honest, it smells like gym socks after 3 days. Don't take them if you're going to be entertaining a new lady-friend. It works, though. You don't feel out of it, or woozy, or drugged in any way. It's very gentle. Things that aren't important just become easier to ignore. For instance, I don't drive fork lifts, or stock shelves in my dreams if I take it. (...Because that's what I do at work, ahh, I'm so glad I got my degree.)

[mattmichler]

How do you get this stuff? What's the name of a brand of it?

[gulliver]

You could always take Rohypnol. Might make for some interesting conversation with your friends.

"Dude, some bitch took me home last night and when I woke up my ass was bleeding and my wallet was gone. She must have put something in my pork chop while I was taking a dump."

[smash]

How do you get this stuff? What's the name of a brand of it?

Garden variety stuff: melatonin. It's an any drug store.

[exelis]

Any luck with adjusting the dose, Smash, or did you try anything else?

[smash]

Any luck with adjusting the dose, Smash, or did you try anything else?

No, but I'm experimenting without taking it routinely. Since I've been like 21, I sleep as poorly as I do, so I pretty much manage fine. This entire week I only took it 2 times. If anything I'm more worried about becoming immune to it.

Strangely this entire week, with or without the melatonin, I've been constantly exhausted. I did Fathers day Sunday, all the cooking, cleaning and everything and when everyone finally left at like 9:30pm I fell asleep beyond exhausted. And every day since then I've been struggling to stay up to 9pm. I think it's the weather. We had a bit of a break in the heat here, plus allergies are in full force.

If I get to really, truly relax, especially if I go 'up north' to our cabin in the middle of the woods without electricity I usually sleep well (and dream).

[UncleMao]

I can't sleep either. But at least half of my problems can be attributed to a little crush I have on someone for the time being.

I know.

I know what you are going to say. Up shut the fuck.

What is concerning me more than a lack of sleep is that in general I have been sleeping Less. And when I say that I mean a lot less than the gradual tapering off sleep hours with age. I am talking like two hours less in the last 2 years. I should have a brain scan. I don't want to end up with no magic spell John Travolta x-men tumour.

[exelis]

No, but I'm experimenting without taking it routinely. Since I've been like 21, I sleep as poorly as I do, so I pretty much manage fine. This entire week I only took it 2 times. If anything I'm more worried about becoming immune to it.

Strangely this entire week, with or without the melatonin, I've been constantly exhausted. [snip]

If I get to really, truly relax, especially if I go 'up north' to our cabin in the middle of the woods without electricity I usually sleep well (and dream).

I'm not pushing anything on you, first of all... You must make your own choices. However, if you actually sleep OK when you are able to relax (for example, when you go 'up north'), melatonin probably isn't the answer. It may help you get to sleep, but it isn't going to do anything for the stress in your life. Changing your lifestyle is, of course, the best answer in terms of fixing this particular problem, but since that is not practical (for just about anybody these days), valerian will take the edge off and maybe help break the vicious circle of poor sleep > stress > poor sleep...